# Alternative to encoders on headless and best way to MIDI learn?

**URL:** <https://discourse.zynthian.org/t/alternative-to-encoders-on-headless-and-best-way-to-midi-learn/10860>\
**Category:** Hardware\
**Created:** [January 15, 2025, 10:14am UTC](https://discourse.zynthian.org/t/alternative-to-encoders-on-headless-and-best-way-to-midi-learn/10860 "2025-01-15T10:14:04Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 4\
**Page:** 1

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**Author:** ![3tree](https://discourse.zynthian.org/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/3/e5b9ba/32.png) [@3tree](https://discourse.zynthian.org/u/3tree)\
**Post date:** [January 15, 2025, 10:14am UTC](https://discourse.zynthian.org/t/alternative-to-encoders-on-headless-and-best-way-to-midi-learn/10860/1 "2025-01-15T10:14:04Z")

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I’ve built a headless zynthian and am exploring how best to control the synth parameters. Is there a way to MIDI learn such that the same 4 midi hardware knobs persist across all synth screens and chains, controlling whichever 4 controllers are on screen?

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**Author:** ![tunagenes](https://discourse.zynthian.org/user_avatar/discourse.zynthian.org/tunagenes/32/7279_2.png) [@tunagenes](https://discourse.zynthian.org/u/tunagenes)\
**Post date:** [January 15, 2025, 1:27pm UTC](https://discourse.zynthian.org/t/alternative-to-encoders-on-headless-and-best-way-to-midi-learn/10860/2 "2025-01-15T13:27:22Z")

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Hi @3tree - I’m not sure I got what you asked, but I’ll answer anyway!  
You wouldn’t midi learn the encoders, what you’re describing is how the encoders work with either a DIY Zynthian or the official kits.

You have to configure Zynthian as to where the encoders are in terms of I2C. See [Zynthian Hardware - ZynthianWiki](https://wiki.zynthian.org/index.php/Zynthian_Hardware#I.2FO_hardware_connections) to get started and search this forum for more instructions, using the terms you get from the wiki, or to ask about your specific hardware.

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**Author:** ![3tree](https://discourse.zynthian.org/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/3/e5b9ba/32.png) [@3tree](https://discourse.zynthian.org/u/3tree)\
**Post date:** [January 15, 2025, 2:14pm UTC](https://discourse.zynthian.org/t/alternative-to-encoders-on-headless-and-best-way-to-midi-learn/10860/3 "2025-01-15T14:14:05Z")

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Thanks @tunagenes, I’ll take a look at the wiki, I’ve moved forward but my workaround is not ideal! Hopefully I can explain better - if I have a hardware midi controller with 4 knobs, I want to map them so that they control the 4 synth controls that are currently on screen. Standard Zynthian MIDI controller mapping, once set, persists to the same synth control regardless of what screen is currently showing, but I want knob one to always control the first synth parameter on screen now, knob two to control the second synth parameter etc, then if I change screens, to control the same options showing up now… I’ve hacked together a passable (ish!) solution with TouchOSC mapping to zynpot sending -1 and +1 against an encoder turn, and then mapped a midi controller hardware encoder to that Touch OSC encoder. It’s a bit ropey but it works.

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**Author:** ![tunagenes](https://discourse.zynthian.org/user_avatar/discourse.zynthian.org/tunagenes/32/7279_2.png) [@tunagenes](https://discourse.zynthian.org/u/tunagenes)\
**Post date:** [January 15, 2025, 4:22pm UTC](https://discourse.zynthian.org/t/alternative-to-encoders-on-headless-and-best-way-to-midi-learn/10860/4 "2025-01-15T16:22:00Z")

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I think I understand more clearly now what you’re trying to do. I’m glad you’ve worked out a passable solution. I do have two thoughts-ideas which I’ll pass along for what they’re worth:

I think there is a way to map four Midi controllers to act like the Zynthian encoders. I don’t know how to do that, perhaps somebody else will chime in.

The most flexible way you can set up controllers is through the recent addition of ‘controller drivers‘, here’s the topic where they were introduced:

> [@NEW: Control-device manager + controller device "drivers"](https://discourse.zynthian.org/t/new-control-device-manager-controller-device-drivers/8593):
>
> Hi @zynthianers! I’m proud of announcing the new control-device manager and driver subsystem is merged on testing branch. This is nice step forward in our road towards world domination grin The concept behind this is simple to explain with some examples: You plug your “Novation Launchpad Mini MK3” to zynthian, and it 's recognized and configured to manage the zynpad. The pads are colored like the zynpad ones. You can play/stop sequences, change scene, etc. LED feedback works great and you …