New zynthianOS release: Stable-2306

[riban]

Hi @Nicolaz!

This is something we are currently working on. We have an initial configuration for some launch pads but not yet fully implemented this feature. Would you please let us know the exact name that the launchpad appears as in the device list? This should be the same name shown in the MIDI devices in webconf.

[Kosro]

Hey, I just flashed 2306 to get started using the new zynseq, but I’m running into a bootloop.
Zynthian started out with the config screen for a while, so far so good, but now the UI keeps restarting (with a little heart in the top right).

-NVM- Had theDAC+ ADC PRO instead of the regular one selected on accident

What does the heart mean tho??

[Lanfranco]

it just happened to me too… I did the update from webconf (which works even if the display shows continuous restarts) and then I brutally shut down… when I restarted everything worked…
I had other problems as well which you can see here:

No audio from card and raspberry (solved)

I replaced the 4 Gb Raspberry with the 8 Gb one, mounted everything and flashed the SD, now I have no audio in the DAC and I also tried with the internal audio of the Raspberry but that doesn’t work either. What can I watch? Many thanks this is the driver: dtoverlay=allo-boss-dac-pcm512x-audio -P 70 -t 2000 -s -d alsa -d hw:BossDAC -r 48000 -p 256 -n 2 -X raw P.S. One more information… If I put the display and sound card drivers from webconf and leave dummies in the wiring (at first star…

[riban]

The heart represents the system health. It changes colour from green (all good) through orange (getting busy) to red (yikes!).

[riban]

One of the things that became evident at Sonar 2023 was that the Zynthian is such a full box of tricks that it can be challenging for users to comprehend the best way to use it. It benefits from its flexibility, allowing a multitude of different ways to use it but this can also prove a challenge to users to understand or decide how best to use it. We may benefit from some familiar / common workflows that encourage users down a particular path from which they may deviate and meander with customisation. Some workflows that I have observed include:

• Keyboard expander - using the mixer view in stage mode allows very fast access to many instruments with individual level control and instrument selection.
• Sequence launcher - triggering sequences live is a lot of fun and quite intuitive (one you understand it is a toggle launcher and not a press and hold keyboard).
• Both of the above blossom when interfaced with external hardware - a launcher pad (Novation Launchpad, Akai APC, etc.) gives fantastic user experience, freeing the UI for other activities and a hardware fader controller allows tactile control of level, pan, etc. for really intuitive performance control. A CC control panel (e.g. rotary knobs) mapped to instrument parameters is similarly intuitive and fun.
• Audio recording, playback, sampling, looping, etc. is great but operation could be smoother and better integrated with launcher pads.
• Sequencer & pattern editing could have improved workflow to provide more intuitive integration. This was an area that I tended to demonstrate at a high level rather than build actual useful patterns preferring to use previously created patterns and sequences for demonstration.
• Integration with external systems - there was much interest in how to bring audio in and out of Zynthian to use it within an existing setup. It should be clear how such integration can be effectively achieved.
• Standalone device - Zynthian does a lot!!! There will be users (like me) who want to use it as their only performance device (or with hardware controllers). Fast and intuitive navigation is essential as well as a simple to understand interface. (Some elements looked rather small or less than obvious whilst others may seem to take up more space than required.)

I think the big take-away I got from playing with Zynthian with other potential users was that we have a lot of stuff in there (I don’t think too much) and we should consider how best to access all the features and how they may be used together, e.g. jumping between sequence launcher and mixer may be a common workflow but you can (do) often accidentally end up in other menus / screens on the way. (Even I was pressing the wrong buttons!)

I am now also aware of how different the user experience is with V4 vs V5 and also other custom designs, e.g. touch only. It may be appropriate to constrain UI to a limited quantity of methods and focus on the best workflow and interface for each rather than try to drive the same interface from any / every combination of physical UI.

I encourage you to consider how you use yours and let us know your ideas on workflow improvements.

[Lanfranco]

As far as I’m concerned, the touchscreen is excellent but I still prefer the knobs… obviously it also depends on the fact that I’m used to it like this. The only thing I don’t like about the Zynthian are the menus you enter to edit a synth while playing… too many menus and submenus. If it were possible to use a button to directly enter the menus of the sound in use without holding down and without using encoder 4 to exit the value to move to another controller… These are trifles, and we’re talking about a real gem… . Thank you

[Kosro]

I think zynthian would benefit hugely from a total UX overhaul at some point.
Much like Blender pre 2.8 it has grown organically over time (and still does) with new and quite frankly amazing feature being added bit by bit… The conventions that were set (bold press, hold, encoders, chains, top bar, “screen history” etc…) helped to keep it consistent and somewhat accessible. However, over time I feel like some features were put where there was space rather than where it would make sense from a workflow perspective.
Don’t take this too harshly though. I am absolutely in love with the zynthian project, I just feel like there’s a lot of potential for further improvements!

I’ll be using my zynthian a lot in the coming week and will be keeping notes on my workflow

[Nicolaz]

Hi, i spent last days trying “zynpad_midilearn_idev” with my Launchpad mini mk3 and i faced some situation that i resume here:

• Snapshot can’t save settings about the Launchpad, so everytime i turn on i have to select the controller again (there’s no way i can select the Launchpad in Webconf);
• Snapshot can’t save the trigger notes for sequences, so i can use only the default ones. The only way then is to build a custom mode in Novation Components with default notes;
• First line of sequences is not activated by the Launchpad, so i turned it off, as you can see in the screenshot;
• In the Launchpad i have to push the right arrow 4 times to reach the correct correspondence between buttons and sequences in the Zynthian screen.

I suppose that all of these problems would be solved if every settings (expecially trigger notes) can be saved in the snapshot. Problems can be partially solved configuring the Launchpad, but it’s not the best way.

Some other stuff i realised could be usefull:

• Expecially with a grid size bigger than 4x4, visual feedback of activated sequences is almost useless. It would be great to have an activation color for the whole pad-sequence instead of micro icons;
• Expecially with long sequences, it’s difficult to realise in wich part of it i am. It would be great to have a kind of progress bar or a counter for beats in pattern (or both!).

That’s all for now. I will go on trying, and i’d like to finish a complete track using Zynseq and Zynpad despite the limitations.

[riban]

Hi @Nicolaz.

We are still improving launch pad integration. Some of the issues you describe do not occur with the integrated devices, e.g. Launchpad Mini Mk 1. We need to add other devices. Will you please tell us the exact name of your device as it appears in webconf?

I too noticed the difficulty in seeing the play status on smaller buttons. I wonder whether there is an argument that you may only use buttons that are too small when you are controlling from a hardware controller that can give this information, e.g. Launchpad shows play state by colour and flash / pulse.

[Nicolaz]

That’s what i have in the MIDI Log. Only “Launchpad Mini MK3 MIDI 2” is working. The MIDI 1 doesn’t work.

[Kosro]

Alright, so after working a lot with zynthian in the past week here are some notes (or complaints if you will) I have on the current state. Keep in mind that this applies to my workflow, but I believe some of the things could be generally improved upon…

• Mixer faders should be logarithmic or something, right now the top 50% of the fader is basically useless

• Zynstep pattern view renders very slowly, especially with large patterns

• Zynstep pads, arranger and pattern view become illegible with many entries

• Zynstep pads, arranger and pattern view should allow for zooming/scrolling

• Duplicating pads/patterns could be easier

• Sound engine dies quite often when loading sampled instruments (especially if other instruments are playing)

• Had some soft locks where neither the UI nor the webconf would respond

• Webconf should have a way to restart the sound engine

• Touch buttons don’t appear on Zynseq screens

• VNC has a lot of visual glitches/tearing

• Zynseq midi recording is a bit of a hastle

• Zynseq should provide different quantization options/allow swing

• Zynseq should record the sustain pedal or translate it to sustained notes

• Zynseq should allow recording from the pads directly

• Grid width/height should be independent

• Since I want to sequence every new channel/instrument in Zynseq, it would be nice if it could automatically add them to the pads/sequencer (maybe there’s a way to do this already? I don’t find it very intuitive)

[riban]

Hi @Kosro

Thanks for the critical feedback. This is really useful. Most of your comments are known issues that we aspire to resolve (given sufficient effort).

@Kosro

Sound engine dies quite often

What device are you using? I have not experienced this with more recent standard hardware.

@Kosro

Touch buttons don’t appear on Zynseq screens

This is by design. Touch buttons (if enabled in webconf) are shown only when necessary. If there are other touch methods to access all functionality of a view then the buttons are hidden.

@Kosro

Grid width/height should be independent

This is a design decision taken for both technical and workflow reasons. Please describe a workflow where it is necessary to configure this differently.

@Kosro

automatically add them to the pads/sequencer

Not a current option. By default the grid is 4x4 and uses chains 1,2,3,10 (because 10 is often used for percussion). We don’t want to overwrite user’s configuration and not everyone uses columns to represent chains. I will think if there is a way to provide a more integrated approach to adding pads, e.g. if the grid is sufficiently sized and columns are empty of patterns / assigned to none existing chains then there may be a way to configure them automagically.

I like that you have identified many of the issues that are painfully stuck in my head. They are the things that I know need fixing but are challenging…

[Lanfranco]

… With all the money we spent to make you study???

[Kosro]

@riban

What device are you using?

Raspberry Pi 4 with 8 gigs of RAM… should be plenty. The crashes mostly occured when doing sample based stuff… Next time it happens I’ll dig the logs out

@riban

If there are other touch methods to access all functionality of a view then the buttons are hidden.

Huh… in that case I wasn’t able to figure out how to use Zynpads & Zynseq with touch only… the wiki is also rather quiet on that topic.

@riban

Please describe a workflow where it is necessary to configure this differently.

I like having one track/chain per column, with different variations/clips/sequences in the rows, it’s how Ableton, Bitwig etc do it and feels natural. I can do that in Zynpad, but if I want 10 tracks, I also get 10 clip slots, which is excessive most of the time.

@riban

We don’t want to overwrite user’s configuration and not everyone uses columns to represent chains.

I totally understand, it’s just a QoL thing I would’ve liked when I had to do the same thing repeatedly

Thank you so much for going through my points, if you’d like to bounce some ideas off me feel free to I do web & UI design and use a lot of music software, some of that might come in handy

[danielwine]

@Kosro

Sound engine dies quite often when loading sampled instruments (especially if other instruments are playing)

The same happens to me in certain cases when I change presets on linuxsampler while (other) sequences are playing. Zynthian kit 4.2 or so, 4 GB memory, Stable-2306

[ricard]

FWIW I finally got around to upgrading to the new stable, by doing a standard software update. It went fairly quickly and my Zynthian still is nice and healthy.

There is some sort of an issue with networking, but it was there before too, and I need to figure out a way to duplicate it properly before reporting it. Something like if Zynthian doesn’t have access to a network it gets periodically unresponsive.