I recently witnessed an inconsistency in the active plugin choice. I suspect this happens after updates, though I didn’t have the chance for any systemaric evaluation.
I just bought the TAL U-No like 3 days ago and I think I had to re-add the plugin after every update. I anyhow saw that behaviour already in the past with other plugins.
I’m on the most recent vangelis. Any idea how to ensure consistent active plugins?
That looks very much like a corrupted filesystem on the card.
Did you flash that card with Etcher, or with RPi Imager?
RPi Imager is recommended now.
I think it was Etcher, it was again some time ago.
Do you think reflashing on the same card would be sufficient, or is the card itself problematic now?
I need to get into this backup stuff…
I have not experienced Etcher causing an SD Card to fail so that you couldn’t subsequently write the card successfully with Imager. I think reflashing on the same card will be sufficient
Can someone just briefly explain how changes in the active plugin list can be related to sd card corruption? Honestly I try to get away without the entire reflashing procedure… I mean, the plugins in question are functional, I just have to activate them again after an update.
You could boot RPi OS from a USB stick and use fsck on the card filesystem. This might repair it, but the problem is, it can not recreate missing information.
I had same mysterious fails on cards flashed with Etcher, even when verify went ok, the card lost data after a few weeks, but most times, verify would throw up even on a new card. Really, I don’t know what is the cause exactly.
So I reflased the card with RPi Imager and since then it worked completely well until
one card died recently. It does not keep data reliably, but has not yet fallen into read-only mode (SanDisk High Endurance 32GB). Maybe wear levelling is somehow disturbed by the way Etcher writes data.
Another card of the same species runs for months now, may have written hundreds of GB already, but still works like new. It has been flashed with RPi Imager and never with Etcher.
YMMV.
Normally, a good microSD card will fall into read-only-mode if wear has exhausted the cells enough to become unreliable, but will never lose data in that process.
Maybe boot RaspiOS from a USB stick, add a second card reader and dd old to new and see how that one behaves.
A common cause of read-only is fake SD card. The card can be very convincing in its presentation, including packaging but, if it is purchased below market rate it is often counterfeit (and sometimes you are unlucky to be sold one at full price by unscrupulous vendors). Always pay the expected amount from a reputable vendor. I have suffered this false economy many times.
The reason this happens is that the SD is not capable of supporting the advertised size. It may have faulty sectors or it may actually be a smaller capacity card, low-level formatted to look like a larger card. (The latter can only be done with dedicated hardware so we can’t fix it ourselves.) When the OS attempts to write to a sector outside the real capacity, the card is rendered read-only. It appears as read-write to the OS but any further saves are not preserved.
It is plausible that Etcher writes to more of the card than other programs which may explain why it is more likely to trigger issues. This is a very hyperthetical idea that occured to me whilst reading the previous posts.
The bottom line is, always purchase a good quality SD from a reputable vendor. ebay is not your friend!
Thanks everyone for extended clarification. In my case I only use Sandisk Extreme or Extreme Pro cards, which were all new before I started with zynthian.
I also quite don’t fully understand the “read only” part. Can the card be partially read only on sector level? Because writing to the card otherwise works (sfz, pianoteq, presets etc.)
When a card suffers the issue I described, the whole card becomes read-only. The OS still sees it as read-write so operations like save will appear to succeed and the files may even appear to be available (due to filesystem caching) but after a restart the files are no longer updated. I am sceptical as to whether the issue you describe is due to a read-only filesystem or faulty uSD. You described a scenario where you successfully configure you zynthian to enable the required plugins and that works but only fails after an update. That sounds more like the update is overwriting the configuration which should not happen but maybe some regression has occured. It may be wise to report this as an issue, ideally using the “Report Issue” button in webconf dashboard which will add useful configuration info to the ticket.
In fact the only issue I have is that plugins become “not selected as active” after updates. It seems that the plugin selection just reverts to default after updating. Honestly I even don’t know if it happened after every update, I think it rather happened after updates which included some kind of new plugin versions. Everything else persists after changes. Presets, licencing, instruments are all ok. I can surely say that the card itself is at least not entirely read only.
Update:
I just did another update and it happened again. Engine database is obviously reverted to default. But all other changes are persistent, e.g. yesterday I just copied pianoteq FXPs to the respective location and they stay there. I mean, isn’t it a question of what happens with /zynthian/config/engine_config.json during an update?
Just another EDIT:
I just made a dry update. The engine list reverted to default again. The /zynthian/config/engine_config.json was changed during that process. What I also don’t know: What is /zynthian/zynthian-sys/engine-config.json for? It dates to 07.03.2025 and seems somehow like the default state.
Update went like this:
########################## ----------------------------------------
# # ZynthianOS ORAM-2409
# ## # Timestamp: 2024-10-02
# ## # # ## # Built from RaspberryPiOS Bookworm (aarch64)
# # # # # # # # ----------------------------------------
### # # # # # # ### Kit: Custom
# # # # # # # # # # Display: Generic HDMI/DSI Display
# ## # # # # ## # Soundcard: HifiBerry DAC+ ADC PRO
# ## ## # Wiring Layout: MCP23017_ENCODERS_V5TOUCH
# # ----------------------------------------
##########################
zynthian-ui: vangelis (219442)
zynthian-webconf: vangelis (25929d)
zyncoder: vangelis (e903d3)
zynthian-sys: vangelis (8a97db)
zynthian-data: vangelis (8b55ea)
---------------------------------------
Linux zynthian 6.6.47+rpt-rpi-2712 #1 SMP PREEMPT Debian 1:6.6.47-1+rpt1 (2024-09-02) aarch64
The programs included with the Debian GNU/Linux system are free software;
the exact distribution terms for each program are described in the
individual files in /usr/share/doc/*/copyright.
Debian GNU/Linux comes with ABSOLUTELY NO WARRANTY, to the extent
permitted by applicable law.
Wi-Fi is currently blocked by rfkill.
Use raspi-config to set the country before use.
(venv) root@zynthian:~# update_zynthian.sh
Updating zynthian-sys (vangelis)...
Updated 0 paths from the index
remote: Enumerating objects: 8, done.
remote: Counting objects: 100% (8/8), done.
remote: Compressing objects: 100% (2/2), done.
remote: Total 8 (delta 6), reused 8 (delta 6), pack-reused 0 (from 0)
Unpacking objects: 100% (8/8), 946 bytes | 94.00 KiB/s, done.
From https://github.com/zynthian/zynthian-sys
8a97db6..84b6fb8 vangelis -> origin/vangelis
Updating 8a97db6..84b6fb8
Fast-forward
scripts/update_zynthian_recipes.sh | 16 ++++++++--------
scripts/update_zynthian_sys.sh | 3 +++
2 files changed, 11 insertions(+), 8 deletions(-)
Updating System configuration...
Alsa Mixer already configured for HifiBerry DAC+ ADC PRO...
SOUNDCARD_MIXER is OK
BOOT LOG ENABLED
OVERCLOCKING => None
RBPI AUDIO ENABLED
OTG ENABLED
SOUNDCARD CONFIG => dtoverlay=hifiberry-dacplusadcpro\nforce_eeprom_read=0
DISPLAY CONFIG => disable_overscan=1\nhdmi_force_hotplug=1\nhdmi_drive=1\nhdmi_group=2\nhdmi_mode=87\nhdmi_cvt=1280 800 60 6 0 0 0\ndtoverlay=vc4-kms-v3d-pi5,noaudio
CUSTOM CONFIG =>
Executing update recipes...
Current patch level: 20250605.1
END OF PATCHES
NO NEW PATCHES TO APPLY.
UPGRADING DEBIAN PACKAGES ...
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Fetched 1,939 kB in 10s (189 kB/s)
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree... Done
Reading state information... Done
19 packages can be upgraded. Run 'apt list --upgradable' to see them.
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree... Done
Reading state information... Done
Calculating upgrade... Done
The following package was automatically installed and is no longer required:
libcamera0.3
Use 'apt autoremove' to remove it.
The following NEW packages will be installed:
dconf-cli firmware-intel-graphics firmware-intel-misc firmware-marvell-prestera firmware-mediatek firmware-nvidia-graphics libcamera0.5 libllvm15 libsensors-config libsensors5 linux-headers-6.12.25+rpt-common-rpi linux-headers-6.12.25+rpt-rpi-2712 linux-headers-6.12.25+rpt-rpi-v8 linux-image-6.12.25+rpt-rpi-2712
linux-image-6.12.25+rpt-rpi-v8 linux-kbuild-6.12.25+rpt mesa-libgallium
The following packages have been kept back:
zynaddsubfx zynaddsubfx-data zynaddsubfx-lv2
The following packages will be upgraded:
firmware-libertas firmware-misc-nonfree libcamera-ipa libegl-mesa0 libgbm-dev libgbm1 libglapi-mesa libglx-mesa0 libjavascriptcoregtk-4.1-0 libwebkit2gtk-4.1-0 linux-headers-rpi-2712 linux-headers-rpi-v8 linux-image-rpi-2712 linux-image-rpi-v8 raspi-config rpicam-apps-lite
16 upgraded, 17 newly installed, 0 to remove and 3 not upgraded.
Need to get 260 MB of archives.
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Get:14 http://archive.raspberrypi.com/debian bookworm/main arm64 libcamera0.5 arm64 0.5.0+rpt20250429-1 [683 kB]
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Get:16 http://archive.raspberrypi.com/debian bookworm/main arm64 libgbm-dev arm64 24.2.8-1~bpo12+rpt3 [25.4 kB]
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Get:19 http://archive.raspberrypi.com/debian bookworm/main arm64 libglapi-mesa arm64 24.2.8-1~bpo12+rpt3 [77.2 kB]
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Get:21 http://archive.raspberrypi.com/debian bookworm/main arm64 libgbm1 arm64 24.2.8-1~bpo12+rpt3 [49.3 kB]
Get:22 http://archive.raspberrypi.com/debian bookworm/main arm64 linux-headers-6.12.25+rpt-common-rpi all 1:6.12.25-1+rpt1 [8,750 kB]
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Get:25 http://archive.raspberrypi.com/debian bookworm/main arm64 linux-headers-6.12.25+rpt-rpi-2712 arm64 1:6.12.25-1+rpt1 [1,342 kB]
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Get:27 http://archive.raspberrypi.com/debian bookworm/main arm64 linux-headers-6.12.25+rpt-rpi-v8 arm64 1:6.12.25-1+rpt1 [1,342 kB]
Get:28 http://archive.raspberrypi.com/debian bookworm/main arm64 linux-headers-rpi-2712 arm64 1:6.12.25-1+rpt1 [1,156 B]
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Get:30 http://archive.raspberrypi.com/debian bookworm/main arm64 linux-image-rpi-2712 arm64 1:6.12.25-1+rpt1 [1,432 B]
Get:31 http://archive.raspberrypi.com/debian bookworm/main arm64 linux-image-rpi-v8 arm64 1:6.12.25-1+rpt1 [1,432 B]
Get:32 http://archive.raspberrypi.com/debian bookworm/main arm64 raspi-config all 20250605 [37.5 kB]
Get:33 http://archive.raspberrypi.com/debian bookworm/main arm64 rpicam-apps-lite arm64 1.7.0-1 [522 kB]
Fetched 260 MB in 1min 11s (3,680 kB/s)
apt-listchanges: Reading changelogs...
Extracting templates from packages: 100%
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(Reading database ... 180405 files and directories currently installed.)
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/etc/kernel/postinst.d/initramfs-tools:
update-initramfs: Generating /boot/initrd.img-6.12.25+rpt-rpi-2712
'/boot/initrd.img-6.12.25+rpt-rpi-2712' -> '/boot/firmware/initramfs_2712'
/etc/kernel/postinst.d/z50-raspi-firmware:
'/boot/vmlinuz-6.12.25+rpt-rpi-2712' -> '/boot/firmware/kernel_2712.img'
Setting up firmware-misc-nonfree (1:20240709-2~bpo12+1+rpt3) ...
Setting up libsensors-config (1:3.6.0-7.1) ...
Setting up firmware-nvidia-graphics (1:20240709-2~bpo12+1+rpt3) ...
Setting up firmware-intel-misc (1:20240709-2~bpo12+1+rpt3) ...
Setting up linux-image-rpi-2712 (1:6.12.25-1+rpt1) ...
Setting up libjavascriptcoregtk-4.1-0:arm64 (2.48.3-1~deb12u1) ...
Setting up firmware-mediatek (1:20240709-2~bpo12+1+rpt3) ...
Setting up linux-image-6.12.25+rpt-rpi-v8 (1:6.12.25-1+rpt1) ...
/etc/kernel/postinst.d/initramfs-tools:
update-initramfs: Generating /boot/initrd.img-6.12.25+rpt-rpi-v8
'/boot/initrd.img-6.12.25+rpt-rpi-v8' -> '/boot/firmware/initramfs8'
/etc/kernel/postinst.d/z50-raspi-firmware:
'/boot/vmlinuz-6.12.25+rpt-rpi-v8' -> '/boot/firmware/kernel8.img'
Setting up libsensors5:arm64 (1:3.6.0-7.1) ...
Setting up libglapi-mesa:arm64 (24.2.8-1~bpo12+rpt3) ...
Setting up firmware-libertas (1:20240709-2~bpo12+1+rpt3) ...
Setting up libllvm15:arm64 (1:15.0.6-4+b1) ...
Setting up linux-kbuild-6.12.25+rpt (1:6.12.25-1+rpt1) ...
Setting up raspi-config (20250605) ...
Setting up linux-headers-6.12.25+rpt-common-rpi (1:6.12.25-1+rpt1) ...
Setting up mesa-libgallium:arm64 (24.2.8-1~bpo12+rpt3) ...
Setting up linux-headers-6.12.25+rpt-rpi-2712 (1:6.12.25-1+rpt1) ...
Setting up libglx-mesa0:arm64 (24.2.8-1~bpo12+rpt3) ...
Setting up linux-headers-6.12.25+rpt-rpi-v8 (1:6.12.25-1+rpt1) ...
Setting up libgbm1:arm64 (24.2.8-1~bpo12+rpt3) ...
Setting up libgbm-dev:arm64 (24.2.8-1~bpo12+rpt3) ...
Setting up libegl-mesa0:arm64 (24.2.8-1~bpo12+rpt3) ...
Setting up linux-headers-rpi-2712 (1:6.12.25-1+rpt1) ...
Setting up linux-image-rpi-v8 (1:6.12.25-1+rpt1) ...
Setting up linux-headers-rpi-v8 (1:6.12.25-1+rpt1) ...
Setting up libwebkit2gtk-4.1-0:arm64 (2.48.3-1~deb12u1) ...
Setting up libcamera-ipa:arm64 (0.5.0+rpt20250429-1) ...
Setting up libcamera0.5:arm64 (0.5.0+rpt20250429-1) ...
Setting up rpicam-apps-lite (1.7.0-1) ...
Processing triggers for libc-bin (2.36-9+rpt2+deb12u10) ...
Processing triggers for man-db (2.11.2-2) ...
Processing triggers for initramfs-tools (0.142+rpt3+deb12u3) ...
update-initramfs: Generating /boot/initrd.img-6.12.25+rpt-rpi-v8
'/boot/initrd.img-6.12.25+rpt-rpi-v8' -> '/boot/firmware/initramfs8'
update-initramfs: Generating /boot/initrd.img-6.12.25+rpt-rpi-2712
'/boot/initrd.img-6.12.25+rpt-rpi-2712' -> '/boot/firmware/initramfs_2712'
update-initramfs: Generating /boot/initrd.img-6.6.47+rpt-rpi-v8
update-initramfs: Generating /boot/initrd.img-6.6.47+rpt-rpi-2712
update-initramfs: Generating /boot/initrd.img-6.6.31+rpt-rpi-v8
update-initramfs: Generating /boot/initrd.img-6.6.31+rpt-rpi-2712
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree... Done
Reading state information... Done
The following packages will be REMOVED:
libcamera0.3 linux-headers-6.6.31+rpt-common-rpi linux-headers-6.6.31+rpt-rpi-2712 linux-headers-6.6.31+rpt-rpi-v8 linux-image-6.6.31+rpt-rpi-2712 linux-image-6.6.31+rpt-rpi-v8 linux-kbuild-6.6.31+rpt
0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 7 to remove and 3 not upgraded.
After this operation, 124 MB disk space will be freed.
(Reading database ... 201161 files and directories currently installed.)
Removing libcamera0.3:arm64 (0.3.2+rpt20241119-1) ...
Removing linux-headers-6.6.31+rpt-rpi-2712 (1:6.6.31-1+rpt1) ...
Removing linux-headers-6.6.31+rpt-rpi-v8 (1:6.6.31-1+rpt1) ...
Removing linux-headers-6.6.31+rpt-common-rpi (1:6.6.31-1+rpt1) ...
Removing linux-image-6.6.31+rpt-rpi-2712 (1:6.6.31-1+rpt1) ...
/etc/kernel/postrm.d/initramfs-tools:
update-initramfs: Deleting /boot/initrd.img-6.6.31+rpt-rpi-2712
Removing linux-image-6.6.31+rpt-rpi-v8 (1:6.6.31-1+rpt1) ...
/etc/kernel/postrm.d/initramfs-tools:
update-initramfs: Deleting /boot/initrd.img-6.6.31+rpt-rpi-v8
Removing linux-kbuild-6.6.31+rpt (1:6.6.31-1+rpt1) ...
Processing triggers for libc-bin (2.36-9+rpt2+deb12u10) ...
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree... Done
Reading state information... Done
Updating zynthian-data...
Updated 0 paths from the index
Already up to date.
Updating System configuration...
Alsa Mixer already configured for HifiBerry DAC+ ADC PRO...
SOUNDCARD_MIXER is OK
BOOT LOG ENABLED
OVERCLOCKING => None
RBPI AUDIO ENABLED
OTG ENABLED
SOUNDCARD CONFIG => dtoverlay=hifiberry-dacplusadcpro\nforce_eeprom_read=0
DISPLAY CONFIG => disable_overscan=1\nhdmi_force_hotplug=1\nhdmi_drive=1\nhdmi_group=2\nhdmi_mode=87\nhdmi_cvt=1280 800 60 6 0 0 0\ndtoverlay=vc4-kms-v3d-pi5,noaudio
CUSTOM CONFIG =>
Updating zyncoder...
Updated 0 paths from the index
/zynthian/zyncoder /zynthian/zyncoder
/zynthian/zyncoder/build /zynthian/zyncoder /zynthian/zyncoder
++ Defined MCP23017_ENCODERS
++ Defined MCP23017_I2C_ADDRESS 0x20
++ Defined MCP23017_INTA_PIN 27
++ Defined MCP23017_INTB_PIN 25
++ TPA6130 kernel driver NOT LOADED. Using TPA6130 user space driver if needed.
++ Building for Wiring Layout MCP23017_ENCODERS_V5TOUCH
-- Configuring done
-- Generating done
-- Build files have been written to: /zynthian/zyncoder/build
[ 86%] Built target zyncore
[100%] Built target zyncoder_test
/zynthian/zyncoder /zynthian/zyncoder
/zynthian/zyncoder
Updating zynthian-ui...
Updated 0 paths from the index
remote: Enumerating objects: 15, done.
remote: Counting objects: 100% (15/15), done.
remote: Compressing objects: 100% (2/2), done.
remote: Total 7 (delta 5), reused 7 (delta 5), pack-reused 0 (from 0)
Unpacking objects: 100% (7/7), 769 bytes | 96.00 KiB/s, done.
From https://github.com/zynthian/zynthian-ui
580db1a5..cfa29792 zynbleton -> origin/zynbleton
/zynthian/zynthian-ui/zynlibs/zynmixer /zynthian/zynthian-ui
/zynthian/zynthian-ui/zynlibs/zynmixer/build /zynthian/zynthian-ui/zynlibs/zynmixer /zynthian/zynthian-ui
-- Configuring done
-- Generating done
-- Build files have been written to: /zynthian/zynthian-ui/zynlibs/zynmixer/build
[100%] Built target zynmixer
/zynthian/zynthian-ui/zynlibs/zynmixer /zynthian/zynthian-ui
/zynthian/zynthian-ui
/zynthian/zynthian-ui/zynlibs/zynaudioplayer /zynthian/zynthian-ui
/zynthian/zynthian-ui/zynlibs/zynaudioplayer/build /zynthian/zynthian-ui/zynlibs/zynaudioplayer /zynthian/zynthian-ui
OSC disabled
-- Configuring done
-- Generating done
-- Build files have been written to: /zynthian/zynthian-ui/zynlibs/zynaudioplayer/build
[100%] Built target zynaudioplayer
/zynthian/zynthian-ui/zynlibs/zynaudioplayer /zynthian/zynthian-ui
/zynthian/zynthian-ui
/zynthian/zynthian-ui/zynlibs/zynseq /zynthian/zynthian-ui
/zynthian/zynthian-ui/zynlibs/zynseq/build /zynthian/zynthian-ui/zynlibs/zynseq /zynthian/zynthian-ui
-- Configuring done
-- Generating done
-- Build files have been written to: /zynthian/zynthian-ui/zynlibs/zynseq/build
[100%] Built target zynseq
/zynthian/zynthian-ui/zynlibs/zynseq /zynthian/zynthian-ui
/zynthian/zynthian-ui
/zynthian/zynthian-ui/zynlibs/zynsmf /zynthian/zynthian-ui
/zynthian/zynthian-ui/zynlibs/zynsmf/build /zynthian/zynthian-ui/zynlibs/zynsmf /zynthian/zynthian-ui
-- Configuring done
-- Generating done
-- Build files have been written to: /zynthian/zynthian-ui/zynlibs/zynsmf/build
[100%] Built target zynsmf
/zynthian/zynthian-ui/zynlibs/zynsmf /zynthian/zynthian-ui
/zynthian/zynthian-ui
Updating zynthian-webconf...
Updated 0 paths from the index
Regenerating engines DB: engines ...
INFO:root:Command took 12s
Running Flag Actions from '//zynthian/zynthian-sys/scripts/update_zynthian.sh'...
Saving state...
Restarting zynthian service...
Restarting zynthian-webconf service...
Update Complete.
(venv) root@zynthian:~# reboot now
(venv) root@zynthian:~#
Not really. If a geniune microSD falls into read-only due to excessive use, it will report to the OS as write protected and refuse any writes, like if the big SD switch has been switched to write protect. Data will still be readable without any issues and without loss.
That is one of the differences between fake and genuine.
Please, let me check if there is some issue with engine DB updates, OK? I also felt there is something strange there 
Regards,
Great! I also opened a bug report here.
I can’t reproduce the issue.
What is the build date of your SD-image? You can read from webconf’s dashboard.
Regards
I cannot get it from the code, under which condition this engine-config.json gets reset or copied over during the update process. Without much of scripting knowledge I read through all of the update scripts and coudn’t find any hint.
It tries to determine what to update using the per-engine"edited" flag. The code is in zynthian-ui/zyngine/zynthian_lv2.py. Not trivial.
Is there a way to perform an update with a more detailed, verbose output than update_zynthian.sh typically shows?
No sorry.
Regards,
