Live Performance

For a live stage on a laptop with an midi keyboard, midi controller and Ableton, I used this scheme…

I implemented layering using only one MIDI channel, activating layers across the trained buttons on the MIDI controller.

It seems to me convenient when during the performance you can add strings, pads or choirs to the sound of the piano or combine sounds as you wish…

is it possible to add midi learning switch to the input of each Zynthian engine?

I would not want to use the mod-ui for such a simple task … it takes resources and has low reliability …

Thanks!!

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Hi Roman!
Your workflow is interesting, although currently it can’t be emulated easily with the Zynthian-UI.
But you could try this …

  • Use MIDI clone feature for having your N engines layered, but keeping most of CCs independent (not cloned).
  • Then use N knobs/faders in your controller to learn the N volume controls of every layer. You can do the same with balance and other interesting parameters.

OK, it’s not so convenient like a switch, but i think it’s not difficult to manage. it’s a kind of mixer, or kind of hammond drawbars. You put “more strings”, “less pads”, “choirs to the maximum”, etc.

In fact, this is not so far from "“Vector Synthesis” … a X-Y axis view for the volumes, some envelope generators for moving the mixing point, … nobody wanting to go deeper with this? :grin:

Regards,

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Yes, that’s how I now organized the layers on Zynthian.
But this option has one drawback … namely, all layers simultaneously load the raspberry processor.

one small button in each engine would solve this problem … :blush:

yes, something very similar to vector synthesis … but for now it’s just morphing … :upside_down_face:

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Imagine that you don’t have to wait for a new snapshot to be downloaded for each song, wherein то your bandmates look at you with love and impatience while you mess with your strange little box … :face_with_hand_over_mouth:

Especially if the sounds you use in the songs are the same … you just need to press a couple of buttons to instantly access the sounds or their combinations …

This is the perfect use-case for ZS3 (subsnapshots), my friend :wink:

Oh, it’s a very long time … :upside_down_face: :grinning:

Seriously, I can create one snapshot for the whole concert from the right number of layers, into which all the sounds I use are loaded. Usually, these are 8-12 instruments. After that, just click the buttons in the right place and the right sounds will sound.

ZS3 technology, in its essence, loads other sounds instead of the previous ones, which in itself is fraught with failures and errors. In addition, it takes some time.

In addition, some MIDI controllers do not know how to send program change commands, for example my favorite Korg Nanokontrol 2 …

Your approach is the more reliable, this is the simple truth. But as you told, it takes memory and CPU. Some instruments consumes CPU even when they are not being used. Of course if you are using a PC, no problem at all, but with zynthian, having 8-12 independent layers could be a problem depending of the chosen engines and presets.

Also, some zynthian engines currently doesn’t support running more than one instance (i.e. Pianoteq), so you need changing presets anyway for these engines.

ZS3 is fast enough for most of situations, it’s quite reliable and will be improved over time, so i think it’s the right choice for stage-usage with Zynthian.

Anyway, i’m thinking about your use-case and eventually will implement some kind of switch for enabling/disabling layers like you propose. It’s very convenient for using Zynthian as a stombox too …

Kind Regards,

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@jofemodo, thank you very much!

Thanks to the integration of MIDI plugins, I was able to implement the idea using the buttons of an external midi controller “Korg Nanokontrol 2” as a layers activator in my workflow…

I used the “Multi Channel” mode in the Zythian settings (“Single Cannell Mode” OFF), channel cloning and the “Midi Channel Filter” midi-fx in each subordinate channels. Using Midi-learn, I assigned a button in each layer corresponding to the channel number.

The first MIDI channel contains a MIDI-FX layer…

Only note events and CC 64 pedals are cloned, other controllers - the volume of the channel / layer, for example, are controlled from the Korg…

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After the update, this scheme also works…

In the previous version of the scheme, jamming MIDI channel 1 via the “Midi Channel Filter” also silenced all other channels…

Regards…

Sorry … but I don’t understand why do you need these MIDI filters.
What do you want to achieve? Have you tried to “bold click” on the MIDI Clone Channel screen? It opens a dialog that allow you to configure the CC you want to clone …

Layers, on/off…

Zynthian, one midi keyboard and one small Korg controller …

OK! I remember …

I still think that you could achieve the same functionality & reliability by using Single Channel Mode with ZS3 and Program Change messages. Of course, your scheme is perfectly OK too, although much more complex … up to you :wink:

Note that using Single Channel Mode gives you some extra features you won’t have with your scheme, like:

  • Smart Note-Off for notes you keep pressed when changing
  • Smart Sustain-pedal release when changing while having pressed the Sustain Pedal
  • etc.

Regards,

The drawback of my scheme is the need to be more careful than usual… :upside_down_face:
Turning layers on and off in my scheme must be performed at a time when no key is pressed on the MIDI keyboard…
Because the “Midi channel filter” cannot send a “Note OFF” reset command, if you turn off any of the channels during the performance, the last sounding notes will hang.

…this function is present in the Ableton program.

In general, I do not mind “Program Change” at all … only my little friend Korg doesn’t know what it is… :face_with_hand_over_mouth:

A later, I will add to my Zynthian four buttons that were not used on MCP23017… I haven’t decided yet how I will use the new buttons, but it may be “Program Change”…

Regards…

If could have Midi-learn glasses … :smiling_face_with_three_hearts:

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