Midi CC Per Chain independant from Chain selection

Using Zynthian
1

Hey there,

I have a handful of chains, all in multitimbral mode, which works like a charm for notes. But mapped CC Values from my controller (novation launchcontrol 1) connected via USB are only working when the chain with the mapping is selected. Every CC input when another chain is selected is ignored on the mapped chain parameters, until i go back and select it.
The Midi Input device is also set to multitimbral.
Where else are there any “active channel” vs “multitimbral” settings that I might have missed?

Thanks already for any help :slight_smile:

2

Oh… there are different types of Midi learn… I see… Nevermind… :slight_smile:

3 Likes
3

IMO there is 1 type missing.

  1. Mapping midi CCs when chain is active, neglecting CC’s channel
  2. Mapping midi CCs together with a dedicated midi channel
  3. (still not there), mapping midi CCs, together with the chain’s midi channel

Perhaps I missed this feature. But since now I could not set a mapping for example to CC20 on channel 10, which is the same channel as the chain. But after changing the chain’s midi channel I have to remap again to have CC20 now on the new chain’s midi channel.

Regards

4

Hi @gitnob !

MIDI learning is totally independent of the MIDI channels you assign to your chains. At least in Vangelis. I couldn’t remember about Oram, sorry :wink:

Changing the MIDI channel of your chains doesn’t break MIDI learning at all, don’t matter if using Chain or Global MIDI learning. I just checked both of them to be sure.

Regards,

1 Like
5

Hi @jofemodo ,

yes, I knew this. But the behaviour was different. After last update, unfortunately, there are two equal behaviours. The “green” midi learn (global??) remembers the midi channel of the CC sender, the yellow one also does remember the midi channel of the CC sender.

What I would expect is a chain channel selective midi learning when choosing chain midi learn.

For example, on a chain with midi channel 10, a CC sender sending CC20 on midi channel 1, i.e., I would expect the following in multitimbral mode …

a) for global learning: 1#20 (channel 1 midi CC 20)

b) for chain learning: 10#20

And now, if I change the midi channel of the chain to for example #9, the global midi learnt (case a) should be the same, for case b) it should now be 9#20.

Is this the implementation idea? Then perhaps I’m doing something wrong. I’m talking about a overall multitimbral configuration in Zynthian (newly updated Vangelis from today).

Regards

6

Please, explain the setup and use case from a functional point of view.

Regards

7

For example, I’ve set up a keyboard to play notes on channel 1 and also CCs on channel 1, I can configure Zynthian to respond to these events respectively. Zynthian has also learnt on chain 1 (midi channel 1) the CC to setup for one of the parameters of the instrument. The mode is multitimbral, so every midi channel has it’s own channel on Zynthian.

Now, I want to have another chain be listening on channel 1, and my described chain should be listening on midi channel 2 instead. For this I’ve changed the midi channel of the above described chain to 2.

Unfortunately, the parameters in this chain, now listening for notes on channel 2, are still listening for CCs on channel 1, because this was learnt before.

But I want to use the new instrument completely on channel 2, not only notes, also CCs should change accordingly. If not, I have to relearn the CCs again for this chain’s parameters, or switch to active chain mode, which is not, what I want.

Hence, a midi channel change should be possible to also be applied to incoming CC channels. But this is not the case. This is why I was talking about a 3rd possible situation to handle midi CCs.

A use case would be what I explained above, or saving a chain into a snapshot and remerging it into a new arrangement of chains with a new custom midi channel. ATM I have to re-assign the midi CCs everytime I change the midi channel for the chain.

If you are using a dedicated midi CC controller with a fixed midi channel, this doesn’t matter, but if you are using, as myself, a midi channel for notes and CCs for every played instrument, it does.

I hope I could shed a little light into my problem description.

BTW, there is still the question about the custom “chain controllers” usage… but this is another topic :slight_smile:

Not that I’m misunderstood, Vangelis is really a joy to use … :+1:

Regards

8

Please, try to explain your use case from a functional point of view. I think you are overcomplicating the setup. Changing chain MIDI channels “on-the-fly” is allowed via ZS3, but it’s not a common procedure and of course, it has side-effects. Perhaps there is a better way to implement your use case …

Why not? You can use active mode just for the keyboard that play the piano chains (3 & 4), while keep using multitimbral for the externally sequenced chains (1 & 2). Changing active chain can be done via ZS3.

Another option would be “connecting/disconnecting” the keyboard from the chains on-the fly, and avoid changing MIDI channels. This can also be done via ZS3.

Regards

1 Like
9

Hi @jofemodo ,

I’m confused now. Seems like there is some misunderstanding. I’ve never talked about ..

You can use active mode just for the keyboard that play the piano chains (3 & 4), while keep using multitimbral for the externally sequenced chains (1 & 2).

This was another topic ( Change USB Midi channel in multitimbral mode ). Let’s stop here with this topic, I’ll find a solution for my setup with the built-in possibilities of Zynthian. I’ve explained my use case IMO, perhaps understanding the “functional point of view” in a different manner.

Regards

10

Why confused? I would like to enlighten you, if i can :wink:

From Oram, ACTIVE and MULTI modes can be set per-device. B.O. (Before Oram. it’s Ancient History for me now) the ACTIVE/MULTI mode was a global toggle.

Regards

1 Like
11

MIDI learn uses the hardware controller MIDI CC and channel to bind to a parameter of a processor. In “Chain” mode, it operates only when the relevant chain is active. In “Global” mode It is always active. It does not use the chain’s MIDI channel.

Imagine you have bound CC 10 on channel 1 to a parameter and CC 10 on channel 2 to another parameter. If you change the first hardware controller’s channel to 2 then you have the same CC comic from both.

1 Like