Surge XT

Yes it would be great to have the option. I have paid for Pianoteq and love it. I may be tempted by SWAM bit it may be beyond my budget as I wouldn’t use it as much as you do. It’s more expensive than Pianoteq which is a shame.

We need to leave it to @jofemodo to talk to Audio Modelling and we should leave it at that for now. It is possible that discussions are happening (I don’t know) but such discussions may need to remain private. You have ignited interest now let’s see what happens. Thanks!

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This is due to pure selfishness of course!! :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Zynthian is mostly driven by selfish interests! Without it on my part there wouldn’t be a sequencer, audio editor, mixer… :smile:

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I would add that if Zynthian had PianoteQ and SWAM inside it in addition to the beautiful analog sounds it already has, its “sentimental value” would grow a lot… but this is my thought.

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SWAM is a closed source product (like Pianoteq) so they would need to do the heavy lifting to port their product to armv7l (32-bit) / aarch (64-bit) and ensure it run on Raspberry Pi. They would also have to expose control and monitoring of parameters via some form of API (socket connection, CLI, etc.) or create a LV2 plugin version. This is all substantial work that any company would want to asses cost / benefit.

Pianoteq do all of the above and provide a demo version (with time limited operation and feature limitations) which allows users to decide whether they wish to purchase the full version. This is essential on a platform like Zynthian where user experience may differ based on the hardware used to build (V3, V4, V5, custom build) and expectations (samplerate, polyphony, sonic performance, etc.) There is also the effort from the Zynthian team to integrate it, making it actually work and also implementing methods to register product keys, manage instrument packs, etc.

It would be great if Audio Modelling were to do all this work and we could integrate it but I wouldn’t hold your breath. There is a lot of commitment required by both sides which would require sufficient incentive. We don’t have lots of VST plugin providers or virtual instrument manufacturers clambering to do this work to get their products available within Zynthian!

[Edit] You are not alone with your use case. There are many of us who use Zynthian as a sound module connected to MIDI controllers without using its other features (sequencer, MIDI player, etc.) It is a versatile device and many different people use it in many different ways.

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Also, u-he has Linux versions of there synths. Diva or Zebra would be great to “have” it on a Zynthian. I would pay for it, as I did for PianoTeq.

Same kind of problem. U-he linux plugins are precompiled for the x86_64 processor architecture. They’d have to put in the work and release them for arm64. We can’t do that as we don’t have the source code.

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There’s little to say… REALLY nice sounds are expensive. The analogue ones, if one is a sound engineer, he manages to come up with beautiful sounds… otherwise not. I love Arturia’s MiniMoog, but getting sounds out of it starting from the oscillators is absolutely not easy… but little by little, thanks to the controller I built which is more direct than the menus and sub-menus, I’m coming up with something good …
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All true! But let’s remember that with a potentiometer and an Arduino Pro Micro you can build an absolutely perfect Expression pedal. I also use the wheel on the keyboard (the oscillator one) a lot for vibrato. As far as breath control is concerned, everything would certainly be more real, but let’s not forget that our keyboards have dynamics and our fingers can use it. I find these instruments the most real since I started playing music… I have also used Native Instruments… beautiful sounds, but they don’t react the way SWAM reacts… the same thing goes for PianoteQ… since I bought the license, I use my Yamaha digital piano only for the excellent keys, but in terms of sound there are no comparisons.

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I am happy to report that the Surge XT is functional in the oram version.

I managed to compile a working LV2 version (along with others) after a few tries. I still have to find a way to set up a directory for user data.

I’m open to the idea of sharing binaries, but I’m more of a self-educated layman in this regard. Someone should educate me.

Interestingly, the original Surge doesn’t work in oram, it won’t open its GUI.

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Hi @ToFF !

These are great news!!

Please, send the binaries to test and a script with the procedure you followed to build it in oram.
I didn’t note before that surge’s GUI was broken in Oram so we sould need to fix this ASAP and i think the best would be to move to XT.
Also, we would need to check how compatible is our current Surge LV2 preset collection with the new SurgeXT. Perhaps we have to regenerate the preset collection with XT, what is a highly bored work :sweat_smile:

Thanks!

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OK, I put all on my github.

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Thanks a lot @ToFF !!

I will test and include it in the Oram branch ASAP.
Surge is a great synth and i’m pretty sure that Pi5 + SurgeXT is going to be an explosive combination!
BTW, did you note some performance improvement by executing it in 64 bits?

Regards,

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I did a little stress test. I tried the Ambien jam on the Torso T-1. One line led to Vitalium, where there was a preset with bass. The second line then played in Surge XT. I switched presets through the native GUI. There will still be some that generate a lot of XRUN. I would say that there are about 1/3 of them. And at the same time I was wondering like you how it will move with Pi 5.

The strength of Surge XT is precisely in those presets, that’s why I also published the install.log to see what the installation added. I will be happy to help prepare a complete package for easy installation in Zynthian. Only you, the more experienced, have to guide me. At least from the beginning. Surge XT releases a new version once every six months, which is an interval that would not burden me with compilation.

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Do we have an estimate of when the work @ToFF did will be merged into the oram branch?

ASAP :wink:
Have you tested the binary in your side? Testing would help …
Also, we need to know if the current preset collection can be used or we need to regenerate the preset library again.

Regards,

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@jofemodo Amazing, not tried the binary yet will test it later tonight and let you know how it goes.
1 tiny question once the binary is compiled should I move it to any specific folder for zynthian to recognise it ?

@jofemodo It’s been a couple of days now since I tested surgeXt and can confirm it works great! Unfortunately the presets are not loaded in the Zynthian UI but they work great when changing them from the VNC UI

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So it seems we need to regenerate our LV2 preset collection for surgeXT. I nice work that must be done with love and care. I have the shell script i used last time and perhaps some volunteer could stepforward and catch the task :wink:

Indeed, we have the tracks from the first time we did;

Call for Surge's LV2-presets

Regards,

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An important point is regarding how parameters are managed by the LV2 generated. They jumped to JUCE 7, that support natively LV2, but they doesn’t use “control ports”, that currently is the only interface zynthian supports. Could you tell how many parameters are accessible in the zynthian UI?

Thanks!

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