Hi zynthianers, I am thinking to add midi interface to my guitar. Does anyone have experience with them and what would you recommend?
Hi @stojos!
Adding a split pickup to a guitar is a cool thing to do. I did this back in the 1990’s with the GK-2A pickup and GI-10 MIDI interface. These work pretty well but I suspect the newer versions may have improved performance. I tend to find that false triggers can be configured out but your playing style needs to consider the technology, e.g. metalhead rapid trills may be misinterpreted. The latency is noticable but not substantial. It tends to lend itself to slightly slower playing but most of my blues-style playing is fine.
It can have its bend range adjusted and I like to set it to zero so that bending a string results in new notes being played which gives an intersting result that I would not have played on a keyboard.
Having program change on the guitar is handy and the single cable carrying both normal pickup output and split pickup is definitely beneficial. (Who wants multiple cables coming from their guitar?) I haven’t really looked at the newer models in much depth. I wonder whether there might be some wireless thing possible although I suspect such a device would add some latency that may be undesirable.
Good luck with your search and let us know what you decide.
[Edit] Something that always concerned me was how to attach the pickup to the guitar. In general these work best mounted close to the bridge. I didn’t want to screw into my guitar (which is an option) so I used the sticky pads but then you need to decide the correct hieght at the point of installation, i.e. little to no adjustment afterwards. This is done with plastic shims that Roland provided. When, many years later I decided to move the pickup to a different guitar it proved challenging to remove the control panel which I had stuck on with one of the supplied pads.
I see three options in a reputable UK music store:
- Fishman TriplePlay Express
- Boss GK-5
- Roland GK-3
The Fishman has USB MIDI interface whilst the Boss & Roland require a guitar synth (like my GK-2A requires my GI-10). They are priced similarly so it may be tempting to try the Fishman. That would require a USB cable to the device and a normal guitar cable to the guitar and I wonder how long the USB cable could be, working reliably and not being prohibitively expensive? The Fishman is actually the cheapest and yet seems to provide more and, although Boss (Roland) is the defacto leader in guitar processing, Fishman are a very reputable supplier of pickups.
I would love to hear someone’s practical experience of using the Fishman. I may be tempted to get one…
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Hi @stojos ,
Check out https://www.jamorigin.com/…
I love it!
Very fast analog to midi conversion… and polyphonic…
Cheers,
Maarten
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That does look amazing! Of course it requires a Windows or Mac computer on which to run it so its (quite reasonable) $150 cost is increased by the need for a host and the extra hardware ads complexity. It would be wonderful to see a version available for arm-64 (although who knows how much CPU processing is required?).
Another thing to try is Aubionotes which zynthian already has. It is a monophonic, audio to MIDI converter and when enabled in admin, MIDI Inputs menu, it can be enabled/disabled for each chain in the chain menu, MIDI Inputs menu. Its performance is fairly average and it doesn’t reach the lower range of the guitar. (I think it stops working around the lowest A on a standard tuning 6-string.) I have found it to be quite marginal in its usefulness but it may provide some fun.
We should look to see if there are any plugins we could get to work on zynthian…
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Fishman offers three MIDI products in connection with the guitar:
-
Tripleplay Wireless MIDI Guitar Controller - flagship controller - the pickup is attached to the guitar, it is designed so that it can be removed. The receiver in the form of a USB disk connects to the PC.
-
TriplePlay FC-1 - Not usable separately. You must have Tripleplay Wireless and insert the receiver into the FC-1. The pedal can then be used to connect directly to a hardware synthesizer or via a USB cable. It has a large display showing the patch name. You can use the buttons to switch patches up and down. It also sends Program Change and a few other midi commands :-). It can be used as a tuner. An expression pedal can be connected to it. You can plug the audio cable from the guitar into it and connect it to the amplifier. Then you can turn the audio signal from the guitar on and off through it.
-
TriplePlay Express - The sensor has the same design as the wireless version for processing and converting the MIDI signal. However, it does not have a WiFi module (and receiver) and connects to the PC using a USB cable. Has buttons for changing patches. But who wants another cable for the guitar
On the other hand, it’s significantly cheaper
I own a Tripleplay Wireless MIDI Guitar Controller and a TriplePlay FC-1 Controller. The advantages of this connection are that I don’t need a PC to play. I can assign each string to its own midi channel. I wrote more here: Compatible problem with Roli Rise? - #15 by ToFF
You can adjust the sensitivity depending on whether you play with your fingers or a pick, plus other parameters. For example, for simulating piano playing, it’s not good to have pitch bend sensing turned on . I also had it on an electro-acoustic guitar with metal strings and it worked.
It’s much more sensitive to the way you play the guitar.
The technology is more modern than Roland and Boss.
The disadvantage is that you also need to charge the sensor on the guitar from time to time. And it’s expensive (for this combo), but you can still get on stage with it.
Tripleplay Wireless and Tripleplay Express use the same programs on PC, more here., Fishman has included a few VST plugins. I see that TriplePlay Utility is new. In the last year I haven’t even connected a midi sensor to my PC :-), I’ve managed with Zynthian and other synths.
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Some of us are still waiting for something that works with 12 strings…
I suspect it will be some time…
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You could try two, offset hex pickups!
@ToFF do you know whether the config can be changed dynamically, e.g. via MIDI PC or sysex? I see that you can manually select a config during power-on but as you describe, you may want/need different configuration for different songs and we don’t all have (or want to carry) a Windows/MAC PC.
I think the FC1 can also be used with the Express.
@maartmaart, @riban and @ToFF, thanks for excellent sugestions.
@maartmaart suggestion looks easy to start with. It would be nice if they would agree to sell a lv2 amd64 plugin so that we can use it on zynthian.
Fishman wireless + fc-1 is probably very good but it is a bit expensive.
My recommendation is to set all patches to mono. So use mod where patch = song/part of song. Here are midi stream when I change patch 7 to patch 6.
CH#07 CONTROL_CHANGE 0 => 0
CH#07 CONTROL_CHANGE 32 => 0
CH#07 PROGRAM_CHANGE 0
CH#07 PITCHWHEEL 0
CH#01 CONTROL_CHANGE 0 => 32
CH#01 CONTROL_CHANGE 32 => 0
CH#02 CONTROL_CHANGE 0 => 32
CH#02 CONTROL_CHANGE 32 => 0
CH#03 CONTROL_CHANGE 0 => 32
CH#03 CONTROL_CHANGE 32 => 0
CH#04 CONTROL_CHANGE 0 => 32
CH#04 CONTROL_CHANGE 32 => 0
CH#05 CONTROL_CHANGE 0 => 32
CH#05 CONTROL_CHANGE 32 => 0
CH#06 CONTROL_CHANGE 0 => 32
CH#06 CONTROL_CHANGE 32 => 0
CH#01 PROGRAM_CHANGE 5
CH#02 PROGRAM_CHANGE 5
CH#03 PROGRAM_CHANGE 5
CH#04 PROGRAM_CHANGE 5
CH#05 PROGRAM_CHANGE 5
CH#06 PROGRAM_CHANGE 5
CH#01 PITCHWHEEL 0
CH#02 PITCHWHEEL 0
CH#03 PITCHWHEEL 0
CH#04 PITCHWHEEL 0
CH#05 PITCHWHEEL 0
CH#06 PITCHWHEEL 0
CH#01 CONTROL_CHANGE 11 => 127
CH#02 CONTROL_CHANGE 11 => 127
CH#03 CONTROL_CHANGE 11 => 127
CH#04 CONTROL_CHANGE 11 => 127
CH#05 CONTROL_CHANGE 11 => 127
CH#06 CONTROL_CHANGE 11 => 127
CH#11 PITCHWHEEL 0
CH#12 PITCHWHEEL 0
CH#13 PITCHWHEEL 0
CH#14 PITCHWHEEL 0
CH#15 PITCHWHEEL 0
CH#16 PITCHWHEEL 0
And here when a play D chord.:
CH#01 PITCHWHEEL 496
CH#01 NOTE_ON 66, Vel: 127
CH#02 PITCHWHEEL 1728
CH#02 NOTE_ON 62, Vel: 127
CH#03 PITCHWHEEL -1743
CH#03 NOTE_ON 58, Vel: 93
CH#02 PITCHWHEEL 1472
CH#03 PITCHWHEEL -1919
CH#04 PITCHWHEEL 1456
CH#04 NOTE_ON 50, Vel: 127
CH#05 NOTE_ON 45, Vel: 48
CH#04 PITCHWHEEL 1312
CH#05 NOTE_ON 69, Vel: 48
CH#05 NOTE_OFF 45, Vel: 0
CH#05 PITCHWHEEL 4096
CH#05 PITCHWHEEL 0
CH#05 PITCHWHEEL 4096
CH#05 PITCHWHEEL 0
CH#05 PITCHWHEEL 4096
CH#05 NOTE_ON 57, Vel: 48
CH#05 NOTE_OFF 69, Vel: 0
CH#05 NOTE_OFF 57, Vel: 0
CH#01 PITCHWHEEL 656
CH#03 PITCHWHEEL -1791
CH#03 PITCHWHEEL -1919
CH#03 PITCHWHEEL -1791
CH#03 PITCHWHEEL -1919
CH#03 PITCHWHEEL 0
CH#02 PITCHWHEEL 1344
CH#02 PITCHWHEEL 1760
CH#02 PITCHWHEEL 1200
CH#02 PITCHWHEEL 1456
CH#01 PITCHWHEEL 0
CH#02 PITCHWHEEL 1280
CH#02 PITCHWHEEL 1456
CH#02 PITCHWHEEL 1312
CH#02 PITCHWHEEL 1568
CH#02 PITCHWHEEL 1120
CH#02 PITCHWHEEL 1776
CH#02 PITCHWHEEL 1536
CH#02 PITCHWHEEL 1664
CH#02 PITCHWHEEL 1520
CH#02 PITCHWHEEL 1648
CH#02 PITCHWHEEL 1488
CH#02 PITCHWHEEL 1312
CH#02 PITCHWHEEL 1504
CH#02 PITCHWHEEL 1376
CH#02 PITCHWHEEL 0
CH#03 NOTE_OFF 58, Vel: 0
CH#01 NOTE_OFF 66, Vel: 0
CH#04 PITCHWHEEL 0
CH#02 NOTE_OFF 62, Vel: 0
Teoreticaly yes, but I never found a description of the communication. The only description of MIDI comunication is available here:
FTP-Modes-Features-v3(2).pdf (59.9 KB)
Yes, you can directly configured connected express pedal to FC-1. Also you can configuring String Sensitivities and routing of Midi In signals. More in manual.
I didn’t mention it, but the new version of the FC-1 manual shows it, instead of the Fishman Wireless receiver, you can plug in the USB cable from the Fishman Connect.
And yes, it is expensive. I managed to buy a second-hand TriplePlay.
And I’ll add a source of information: Fishman Tripleplay F.A.Q.
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Is this one still good or there are newer models:
Il this one is cheap on reverb.
If you buy it you will probably need an installation kit:
My beauties. On the acoustic, there is the rest of the holder. On the electric, there is the TriplePlay.
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I use the TriplePlay as well. I bought a wireless one used but I would probably buy the new wired one if I needed another. Wireless is not really necessary and always makes me nervous using it live (dead battery, interference, etc), and the new Express uses USB-C. When you buy used you may not get access to the bundled software (SynthMaster), but it’s not important for Zynthian use. You need Windows or Mac OS to calibrate sensitivity and program presets. You will want to put it into “Hardware Mode” (see guides at Fishman Tripleplay F.A.Q.). I will try to link the document here as well.
The TriplePlay is a natural fit for Zynthian because of its USB connectivity and Zynthian’s ability to process synth and guitar simultaneously. You can do lots of cool stuff like sidechain the guitar signal to “squash” the synth and other such fun things!
Joe
FTP-HW-mode-v3.pdf (342.5 KB)
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