I need a list of all sound patches that are included in the Synzthian.
I also need MIDI addresses of each of those sound patches, MSB, LSB numbers. I am using Windows based Cakewalk Sonar ….. I know… I am new to Linux, so pardon me. I have used Sonar for over 30 years and I can’t switch over overnight. I have been wanting to use VSTi/LV2 samples for 20 years but I could not afford it because the MUSE system was over 5K. I am excited to use the Zynthian, I have assembled the kit. But I need to be able to have the 1. .ini file which sonar uses to keep track of all the sounds available in a Synthesizer and/Or a way to call the instrument via MIDI by using the MSB/LSB numbers. Someone please help. If I have the list of all the factory patches and “where they are located” like General MIDI group and Patch number 1-127, I might be able to create my own .ini file in Sonar so it could call up the patch from Sonar when it is running. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.. Dr. Chelliah
Hi @DrChelliah, and most welcome to the Zynthian planet and this thriving nice community,
As you may be already aware, Zynthian is not a fixed preset expander with a stock factory list of patches. It has of course a vast range of synthesiser engines/drum machines/FX and Midi processors enabled by default, most of which come with their own wide selection of presets, but you will soon discover that each machine tends to become very tailored and personal, if only for the ample availability of more optional engines.
It has been discussed in the past, but we don’t have in place for the time being a centralised and categorised patch selection facility, for all the enabled engines or the active processors in a user’s scene (called a snapshot).
Of course, you can use whatever Midi addressing method you prefer for calling externally the presets of your engines of choice, including PC and MSB/LSB, since Zynthian has a full Midi protocol implementation, but the way it works depends on the specifics of every single plugin activated.
EDIT:
Also, let me point you at the particular function the Zynth (as we lovingly nickname it) employs for handling the recall of engine patches, which is called a ZS3 sub-snapshot system, because changing presets on the fly in the traditional way (Program Change) would require the slow process of reloading the engine associated with a Midi channel (a “chain” in Z parlance).
I’m trying to figure out what you are actually trying to achieve, since I’m completely unaware what a “muse system” is and what exactly you want to write an .ini file for.
Anyhow it sounds like you are trying to use zynthian as a hardware general midi output device, is that correct? So you want to compose on a desktop daw and output specific midi channels and program messages to the device expecting it to play a certain instrument? Although from your description I don’t know if the zynthian hardware was the necessary step towards that goal, you could watch this topic here:
Either way I wish you that you’ll find here what you are looking for.
Thanks for your reply. I appreciate it. I do 70 live concerts a year. I “load” 15 song accompaniments in the MIDI format and my Sonar software sends the 16 track MIDI to a Roland MIDI module for playback. Each song DOES NOT use the same set of MIDI musical instruments. My Sonar software has the patch selections preselected for each song. The Roland MIDI playback unit changes the patches (instrument) for each song via MIDI messaging e.g., MSB/LSB bank change, patch change. Is there anyway I can trigger/send MIDI messages from my softare via MIDI to call up 16 different instrument patches for each song? Perhaps I am asking for too much??
Zynthian has the concept of a snapshot which is a recall of the full state. This includes the chains which may any instrument and any effects in each chain. So you may set up a snapshot which has the instruments you want, e.g. piano, organ, strings, percussion, synths, etc. You can then recall presets to each of these instruements with a single message, e.g. you could send a MIDI program change message to recall Grand Piano to your piano chain, Blues Organ to your organ channel, Cello to your strings chain, etc.
You could also use some soundfont instruments, e.g. fluidsynth or linux sampler. You could have 16 chains, all with soundfont instruments and recall any soundfont to any chain, e.g. recall Electric Piano to chain 1, Grand Piano to chain 2, etc.
This mechanism is called ZS3. It does not change the structure of the chains but recalls presets and parameter customisation rapidly. This is ideal for performance. You may have a song that requires some presets which you recall with Prog Change 1. Then you may need to change some parameters or presets during the song or before the next song so you send Prog Change 2 which recalls ZS3-2 with the presets and parameter customisations you made and saved during show preparation.
I am sure that zynthian meets and exceeds your requirements. You need to understand its structure to maximise its benefit.
As stated above, there are thousands of engines, each with zero to hundreds of presets. It is impractical to list them all and they may change dynamically as you save new presets.
It’s important you understand zynthian is a micro-DAW, not a MIDI module.
Zynthian include a lot of engines (synth, audio FXs, MIDI processors, etc). A lot of people like to call them “plugins”, but we prefer to use “engines” for good reasons (mainly because some of them are not plugins).
Most engines (but not all) can be instantiated (launched) more than once. Some of them can be launched just once. We call processors to these engine instances.
Processors are arranged in chains. There are different types of chains:
Synth chains
Audio input chains
MIDI chains
Audio + MIDI chains
MixBus chains
Special chains
Each chain is composed of a number of processors routed between them.
Loading chains and processors is something that takes time. It can’t be done in real-time. It’s like loading a project in your DAW. It takes some time. You could do it for each song, but it would take some seconds.
If you want fast instrument changes, you need all your chains and processors loaded and ready to play. Here is were ZS3 mechanism enters. A ZS3 is a substate relative to a chain layout, that is normally saved as a snapshot (a zynthian project).
A ZS3 (Zynthian SubSnapShot) can be easily learned/associated to MIDI program change, and it’s specially conceived to cover the needs of musicians in the stage.
The on-stage workflow would be kind of this:
You normally would use one or several snapshots for your gig. Remember that loading snapshots takes some time, so it’s better if you can do with only 1. If not, you would have to remember to change the snapshot when needed.
Every snapshot loads an arragement of chains and processors (chain layout) and can store any number of ZS3s (substates), associated to “bank+program change” or not.
You could think of ZS3 like songs or song-parts. Each time instruments change, you would call a ZS3. ZS3 load time is as short as possible. This depend of the engines you are using, but normally is under 1 second.
That is correct. If that is not possible, can any of you help me just set up 2 channels (chains) one for Drums on MIDI channel 10 and Bass on Channel 4 both of which I can trigger from my computer via MIDI? I can get it to play only one channel at a time. Obviously, ideally I would like to trigger/play 16 chains via 10 MIDI channels simultaneously. But if I can get just channels 4 for bass (any one MIDI channel for bass and another channel (traditionally MIDI channel 10) for drums.
You need to change the MIDI input to multitimbral. By default the MIDI inputs are in “Active Mode” which means they will play the currently selected chain. By changing the MIDI input mode to “Multi Mode” then the MIDI channel is used to route the input to the chains. You can do this in the admin/midi input menu by bold select an entry then toggling the mode.
